plenty of times in the original manga. Gotenks is already above Goku and we know Gohan is above even that. The Hirudegarn movie is non-canon. In light of the post attempting to prove SSJ3 Goku is superior to Mystic Gohan, I am going to briefly explain why Mystic Gohan is more powerful.The manga isn't even vague about this, so I've never really understood the argument to begin with. This is the same Super Buu that Ultimate Gohan effortlessly walked all over. Goku's help was negligible, all he did was tell Gohan to stop holding back. what? Well if you disagree with me look how Gohan was acting when he was Fighting Cell. goku called gotenks a risky gamble meaning he had no faith in gotenks' power. Blazingswaggod. Turns out it was SSj Gotenks (Pre-RoSaT), who was equal to SSj3 Goku's level (although, this was before Goku stated that, had he went Full Power SSj3 on Majin Buu, he'd kill him). Actually SSJ3 Goku in Fusion Reborn is a different Goku than canon. Ultimate gohan could barley hold his own against super buu w/gotenks absorbed. While Future Yajirobe is still a coward who shies away from a fight, living in a war-torn world has definitely done him a favor. SSJ3!!! could freeza beat cell games gohan? Piccolo stated it himself. Wouldnt Goku have fought if he felt that he could win? If the fight continued I have no doubt that Goku woulda been beat like Gohan. Piccolo is the smartest guy in the series and base gotenks was greater than his expectations, also buu power is like a lie, he can increase his power in a few seconds. so how can gohan not beat the "ssj2 level"?Broly Rocks 08:52, August 21, 2011 (UTC), ok to clear things up... super buu is WAY stronger than kid buu, but kid buu is more dangerous. Don't you think that if Gohan could slaughter Cell like he did that Kid Buu who was fighting a SSJ3 evenly would left a SSJ2 crippled or dismember one in a few attacks. DrunkenPilot72 11 years ago #5. iirc, Toriyama himself stated that Gohan was the strongest non-fused character in the series. rewatch the fight! It is implied that Gohan is, since it is his unlocked potential. as i recall, gotenks went ssj3 without anyone ever showing him how. Gohan was the strongest unfused character in the whole series. That is fact. He stated that he could've beaten Fat Buu when he first encountered him. Heck, he's stronger than SSj3 Gotenks, who's a lot stronger than SSj3 Goku. Following Goku's death, he was trained by Piccolo in anticipation of the upcoming Saiyan invasion, and grew much stronger and closer to his new mentor, ultimately redeeming him and setting him down the path of heroism due to their bond. I do not believe they were equal, since he clearly was pounding on Gohan. Movies are non-canon and cannot be put in debate as most of them have a HUGE amount of plotholes.I can never forgive you for what you've done! And btw none of these "traits" are powers. Then we have the newly formed Super Buu which is much stronger than Fat Buu. Why do people say Goku couldn't beat Fat Buu when he clearly said he could but he didn't want to? That doesn't even make sense. gotenks got crushed meaning that statements bullshit. So that says SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta fighting together can't beat Super Buu. He never really fought Super Buu he just through his shitty unpredictable attacks at Buu. 121.222.11.242 06:39, August 19, 2011 (UTC). He wasn't smiling, he was serious, goku also said they were no match for his strenght, See when vegito got absorbed and goku and vegeta ventured inside of buu. http://www.mangareader.net/105-3160-13/dragon-ball/chapter-511.html. But he’s also able to access different levels of power through going Super Saiyan; he doesn’t always have to operate at full power. Gotenks is a fighting genius?! all that stuff you said about the spirit bomb makes no sense and it makes you sound messed up in the head. you said your going by funimation. And I think Hirudegarn was either the same or more powerful then Super Buu. What do you mean Goku had no faith in his power? I don't see how this is difficult. Plus Kid Buu is stronger then super Buu. and your wrong. Is Goku Stronger Than Beerus? Gohan thrashed Super Buu. base gotenks > ssj3 goku. Anyone who disagrees is either a fanboy or blind. On the other hand, when Piccolo Buu was made, Goku said "Gohan can take you now". So it's not a 1:1 ratio. This argument proves my point that there had been a mistake in the story but some people wont agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If Gohan was as old and had the same experience as Goku it still wouldn't be good enough. It is quiet stupid to say that vegeta was comparing kid buu with fat buu. piccolo thought blowing up the door was better than letting gotenks fight more. Gohan surpasses current MUI Goku but potentially loses to post ROSAT Goku. Gohan is much stronger then Goku. The first time was with the Elder Namekian, also known as Guru on Planet Namek, and the second time was with the Elder Supreme Kai back in … We all know that SSJ3 puts a very large strain on the users body, while with Gohan's unlocked potential, it's as if he is normal with no strain on his body or his energy level. Goku wanted to fuse with Gohan to beat Buutenks and fuse with Vegeta to beat Buuhan. VS. Don't think this has been done before.So in DBZ most people will agree that Mystic Gohan is stronger than SSJ3 Goku.In DBGT It is said that Goku Especially due to the fact he believes SSJ1 Gotenks can beat Majin Buu, while he had to go SSJ3 to even combat him. gotenks being on his level is absolutely astounding and amazing, especially at such a young age. I know Goku says a lot of dumb things, like that Gotenks is more powerful, but Gotenks was expected to do big things and was composed of 2 boys. Just like Vegito and Super Buu after absorbing Gohan's battle was one sided. Goku said, he didn't try his hardest when he fought Fat Buu, but he also said he didn't know if he could win. . He achieved and fully mastered SSJ3 in one week. wrong. Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku from Dragon Ball Super. I think Ultimate Gohan is because He had no problem against Super Buu befor he absorbed Gotenks SSJ3. Goku's transformation was arguablly the hardest (to ssj) and after that it was childs play, not because of natural talent, but because they figured out how to do it from others. He even said Gohan can handle Piccolo Buu. Since we never saw Vegito really try all that much except for one instance when he stopped Buu from breaking the dimensional barrier, we have no gauge to use except the evidence offered by the Kais. from what we KNOW, base gotenks is more powerful than ssj3 goku whos equal to goku. Their is no getting around this. Thats just dumb. If they were both at full power/stamina. Gohan >> SSj3 Gotenks > Super Buu >>>>> SSJ Gotenks <=> FPSSJ3 Goku. Be it SSJ3 Goku or Gotenks. buuhan>super buu>kid buu>hirudegan>fat buu, Movies aren't canon so I wouldn't read too much into it. goku ssj3 is stronger than ultimate gohan. His question does make sense since Gotenks didn't have the fighting skills/instincts that Goku had, which is why Goku managed to hold his ground (figuratively) against buu (gotenks absorbed). Goku said "We are still no match for his strenght" Super Buu>>>goku stated by goku himself. and as soon as goku was ssj, he was like "yeah i win" because he now could push it. Justice League: 10 Strangest Romances In The Comics, 10 Marvel Superheroes Who Are Stronger Than Ultra Instinct Goku, Dragon Ball: Goku's Martial Arts Masters, Ranked From Weakest To Most Powerful, Dragon Ball: 5 Things About Goku That Make Him Unique (& 5 Ways He's Generic), Dragon Ball: 10 Things About Goku That Make No Sense. and goku was turned into a body smaller than a flea so he was too small to fight properly. !Gohan is Supreme, Supreme is Gohan. Goku also always uses his unique foresight that forces him to make certain decisions. Gohan? Reliable evidence from the Buu saga implies that Gohan > Gotenks > Goku. And When Goku beat Hirudegarn, it was a plot hole. "Now for starters, we know that SSJ3 Goku was stronger than Fat Buu. i said stronger/equal. no he didnt. and then he became SPC and wounded gohan but onyl because gohan had to shield vegeta. Ok, now Buiccolo lost the power of Gotenks SSJ3, but in place gained the power of SSJ Trunks and SSJ Goten along with Piccolo's power. I think that the Ultamite Gohan is barely stronger than Ssj3 Goku. Yes, I can see that Piccolo contradicted his own words about Gotenks able to win, but his statement about Gotenks powering up greatly isn't. And piccolo knows gohan even more than goku does. Was it because kid buu was PURE evil, when Super Buu was the type to always want to turn people into chocolate and wanting a challenge. Their is proof in the manga and in the anime. no you dont. no he didnt. He's also definitely stronger than gotenks, because he easily defeated super buu while gotenks was barely stronger than super buu. Since gohan was weaker than goku at that point in the story and the unlocking ability made him stronger than super buu, I'd say so. Others say SSJ 1 Gotenks is around or equal SSJ 3 Goku. This question depends on what stage of the manga you're asking about: Buu Saga (also counting Movie 12) or post-Buu Saga. While Gohan just intercepted a blast that would have killed Vegeta. too much could kill gohan. Is Goten Goku's MINOR Son? As proof Goku with his child body couldn't use instant transmission a skill he used often as an adult. could roshi beat raditz? Sweet . Here are some things he can each do that Beerus can't. All these powers mean he could easily best Ultra Instinct Goku, and in a variety of ways. Goku and ultimate Gohan Fight, who is stronger? Some people would say that he wants the next gen to fight Buu, well this was the case when Goku was dead and i totally agree. I dont think Ultimate Gohan is stronger than SSJ3 Goku. If Gohan's power was so great it should have been enough for the Spirit Bomb. YOU ABSOLUTE IMBECILE! This is the only thing we have than can draw a clear winner. no you didnt establish shit. I...am Supreme Gohan! . Gohan vs UTgohan!!!! The person who commented above(not in bold) has already provided proof. Ultimate Gohan wouldn't have last anywhere near as long as ssj3 goku against kid buu, If he would have survived at at all. I'd say Full power mystic Gohan might be stronger than SSJG Goku and can probably hold his own against SSJB like android 17. . 121.222.11.242 06:39, August 19, 2011 (UTC), Ultimate Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks, as shown by him easily beating up Super Buu. Ok lets make this clear. Not men. Captain Marvel's Binary form is achieved when she absorbs enough energy to unleash upon her opponent. As you recall, when you witness someone achieve a level of SSj, it makes it a hole lot easier to understand how to do it. If he did he meant Fat Buu. However the anime made SSJ3 seem stronger. BoG also shows SS3 Goku to be stronger than Ultimate Gohan, while making no note of Gohan slacking off or losing power of any sort since the end of the Boo saga. Dark Phoenix: Who Would Win In A Fight? But he is a fighting prodigy. Goku didn't had enough energy to remain an ssj3 for a long time that is why he was counting on the fusion technique. Why not start things off with the most obvious entry? Hundreds of times what gave you that idea? I...am Supreme Gohan! goku wanted to wish gohan and gotenks to the battlefield. Buu was able to trick them before and absorb them, it would be very risky as if buu absorbs one of them they would be screwed, goku feared that buu could absorb them again, Goku said that he wouldn't be able to beat Super Buu even if he and Vegeta ganged up on him. That makes absolutely no sense. Piccolo stated Gohan's ki is the strongest he as ever felt. Goku also said he and Vegeta together could not beat Super Buu even in his normal form. Frieza is equal to SSB Goku who is way stronger than Gohan,which makes Frieza stronger than Gohan. You have to be a good deal stronger than the spirit bomb to push it back even if the user had no power. Besides, in Z he doesn't go SSJ after he's been ultimatized because his full power has been released, thus power amplification transformations such as SSJ and SSJ2 have no room anymore, as he can't get any stronger. read it again. Kid Buu is not "more evil" he and Super Buu wanted to destroy everything so why would the Kai's waste their breathe to say Kid is unrestrained as in more evil more crazy when it really doesn't matter since the outcome would be the same no matter which Buu won. And Gohan was even stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. 21:31, December 28, 2011 (UTC), In the manga, it is heavily implied tha Ultimate Gohan was stronger. One of X-Men's recipients of the Phoenix Force, Jean Grey is arguably one of the most powerful mortals to ever exist on Earth. After training in the RoSaT, SSj Gotenks got even stronger. When Goku was letting Vegeta get beat up it was so he could gather energy to beat kid buu who is just as strong as super buu, canon. It just makes no sense. their potential is higher than gohans, practically limitless. he never thought they could have won. I...am Supreme Gohan! Now if Gotenks is that much stronger at SSJ 3 than when he was only SSj1, then he's much stronger than Goku. SSJ3 is supposed to be like ten times more powerful than SSJ2 and there's a history of people only twice to 5 times as powerful as their opponents defeating their opponents in mere seconds. SSJ2 Gohan DID defeat Super Perfect Cell with his full power. And who the fuck said it wasn't canon? Where . So that is why Gohan lost. In Dragon Ball Super, Gohan has become a complete family man, being a devoted father and husband. NomadMusikTalkFanon Wiki, I believe Ultimate Gohan is as strong as a ssj3 but would not be as strong as Goku was when he finished off Kid Buu. yes he did use ssj3. And if it is true that he was the strongest in the Buu fight, he isn't the strongest after the 10 year gap. He is way stronger than Goku/Vegeta, not about SSJ2 Gohan. Ultimate Gohan has more power and agility, but still just barely is stronger than SSJ3EmperorPeelaugh575TalkContrib 02:50, January 11, 2012 (UTC)EmperorPeelaugh575. Goku is Stronger than Ultimate Gohan when goku was powering up every one felt it even in the kai's world but when Gohan was powering up it was felt only in the kai's world. This character has been the focal point of the series from the very first chapter of Dragon Ball and trying to change the face of the series would've been quite a hard sell to fans at that time.. 8 GOHAN: Would've Added A Layer Of Finality To The Series Yet SSJ3 Gotenks fought equal with him and almost won until the fusion wore off. There are arguments on both sides but we can as the series proceed, the villains get stronger and stronger. OF COURES! 18:16, October 25, 2011 (UTC). Trunks and Goten even remark that their power is great as well. To those arguing with Goku's statement as some kind of fact, Goku has been wrong. Personally, I think Ultimate Gohan is stronger, but there are a few weird things that could make it go either way. even in the dub, he didnt say that. We also have a statement from Goku saying that SSJ Gotenks could beat Fat Buu as well. This should be enough to prove that Gohan is stronger however some people like to refer to the filler fight between goku and buutenks and use that as evidence. 121.222.11.242 07:16, August 15, 2011 (UTC). He was also distraught from having Goku (and Trunks) die. It is important we must stop the debate here as thing r very unclear. I swear I heard him say that when I saw that episode. Tell me how you know this. Who was stronger, not the better fighter, but stronger in raw power. As far as goku looking for a fusing partner is concerned, Goku knew he had to utilize a lot of energy in his ssj3 state to defeat buu. Specialbeamkamehameha 15:28, August 13, 2011 (UTC). He also said he watched everything while he was in the other world so he knew of Gohan's strength yet he still said ONLY Goku can fight Kid. Among her usual superhuman abilities, Jean is an omega-level telekinetic and telepath. By Nishid Motwani Oct 12, 2020. you act like super buu is a pussy and not much of an opponent. ssj3 gotenks was definitely more powerful than super buu. This clearly shows he is far weaker then them both. I go by the FUNimation Dub. Even lower I'd say because he could still fly against Kid Buu. goku in base is not as strong as ssj3 goku in z. . This pretty much shows that Goku has no chance against Gohan. SSJ3 Goku is only on screen for about 2 minutes and kills Hirudagarn. SSJ3 Goku was weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks at the time, only being considerably stronger than SSJ Gotenks (post-rosat) at full power. It's possible GOku know what would happen if Buu absorbed their fusion so he could've done it for that purpose. hirudegarn wasnt any more angry at the end than he was at the start of the fight. Why did he never tell him about his power and that he would destroy the universe until he came. Therefore, we can say that ssj3 goku was more powerful than ultimate gohan. He was also distraught from having Goku (and Trunks) die. I think it depends upon which the Ssj3 is. In fact, some say that Base Gotenks (Post-RoSaT) would rival SSj3, although I don't believe it as he (Base Gotenks) still lost to Super Buu, while his SSj form did better. And when did you actually see Super Buu fight hand to hand? Goku in particular is like 30+ years older than Goten. super buu definitely would let goku be full power for the sport of a challenging opponent. Broly Rocks 08:58, August 21, 2011 (UTC). cell supressed his power. It can be safely stated that Goku is the main protagonist of the Dragon Ball series, despite Akira Toriyama's attempts at ushering in the era of Goku's son, Gohan, midway through Dragon Ball Z. To contradict this, we can't technically say that Gotenks was the quintessential SSJ3, because he could only hold that form when fused, and, after all, he's a kid with much less fighting experience. If you can't seriously understand that SSJ3 Goku or Ultimate Gohan would outclass those boys then you clearly didn't watch the anime or read the manga. goku said that him (in ss3) and vegeta (in ss2) cldnt beat super buu and that they wld lose while gohan single handedly pwned super buu. In other world it's goku, Gohan, gotenks. He can manipulate matter and time, he is nigh-invulnerable, his strength knows no bounds, and on top of that, his full potential is still unknown and has yet to be seen. and even more evidence points to goku > gohan in the manga buu arc. Which he does in Battle of Gods and GT, so argue with this. But again, In the Wrath of the Dragon, Ultimate Gohan is defeated by Hirudegam who is again defeated by Ssj3 Goku. In Gt, Gohan didn't train and fell behind and he sucks anyway, whereas Goku kept training. We never saw anything to suggest that sord of thing. NEXT: Goku Vs. - Tien, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCfHHyRTUSg, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd0Sxotf4aI, TheDragonThatHasLongSinceForgottenHisName, https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Is_ultimate_Gohan_actually_stronger_than_a_ssj3%3F?oldid=1344764. Because Buutenks got in Gohan's head. There are a couple times where its implied that Gohan is stronger. -UltimateSSJ1-. Could easily unlcoked goku's true potential have done Goku and highly doubt after that he would have been able to go SS4. I don't think SSJ3 Goku was as storng as super buu in the canon of the manga, so I guess so. The only point where Gohan is clearly in another league is for one major fight about 200 episodes in, after which time 7 years pass, with Goku training almost constantly and Gohan not training at all, so Goku takes the lead again. Who's stronger!! Regardless of whether that Manga and/or Japanese Anime is the original. gt perfect files said gohan didnt slack, , but in the world of DBZ that's just how it is. so goku > super buu. The only point where Gohan is clearly in another league is for one major fight about 200 episodes in, after which time 7 years pass, with Goku training almost constantly and Gohan not training at all, so Goku … Now if Gotenks is that much stronger at SSJ 3 than when he was only SSj1, then he's much stronger than Goku. Magic is one thing that can provide anyone bearing it the advantage in a fight. Super Buu was just Bad Buu that absorbed the Good Buu. Dude, wtf? When Gohan came along, he dominated him. He said that it is difficult to say whether buu is stronger or weaker. 121.222.11.242 07:16, August 15, 2011 (UTC). When Cell came back stronger, he also came back at 100% energy/stamina. Yeah right. they ddint know theyd go back to normal size after escaping. Mystic Gohan>>Super Buu=SSj3 Gotenks>>>SSj Gotenks (Post-RoSaT)>>>SSj3 Goku. Also the fact that Gohan managed to survive an attack from SSJB Kaioken which is strong enough to easily kill Gohan and destroy him shows that he can clearly hold his own against SSJB. WTF are you talking about? Well in my opinion Gohan is stronger than goku because Gohan could easily won vs Super Buu. Why Isn't Goten Like Goku or Gohan? And that was because he was distracted. goku ssj1 in gt is comparable to what ssj1 gotenks was back then. a stationary genki dama is pretty easy to push back. 2. Obviously he was comparing kid buu with buu+goten+trunks+piccolo and he said kid buu was strong or at least equal. Topic Archived; Page 1 of 2; Last ; You're browsing the GameFAQs Message Boards as a guest. Things aren't always as they seem. Kid Buu, is the original Buu. no he never "overestimated" gotenks. Ok idiots first yes ssj3 gottenks WAS stronger then ssj3 Goku but forms of ssj can been trained and grow stronger so Goku or any other has the capacity to become a stronger ssj3 and does so ... 2 buu becomes unknowingly weaker wen he absorb people kid be was his fully expelled form he was stronger Goku and vegeta even say the felt the emorous power change ... Gohans ultimate or mistic form is in a ssj 3 class in terms of power level but ssj3 puts a strain on them as all forms do when not perfected and maintained ..4 yes mistic Gohan was the strongest character at his initial coming including Goku at the time but like we all kno forms can be them selfs strengthen and trained and a ssj can grow to be a stronger ssj in the same light as a $$j3 can grow to a stronger $$j3 . gt is non canon and im smarter than you. you say goku could not handle fat buu? Who was stronger, not the better fighter, but stronger in raw power. gohan and the others gave very little contributions. How could do they do that if they were too weak? She can do magic with her hands, of course, and she can also practice something called Chaos Magic; a superpower that she gained from the demon Chthon. For all his power with fusion, the only thing he was able to amount to was being <= to Super Buu. SSJ3 Goku vs Hirudegarn : Hirudegarn is obviously stronger than Ultimate Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks (both of them are at least 3x Goku). The fact his arm got injured just made Gohan think he was down to half of his power due to his special confidence problems. you misread the quote. User Info: DrunkenPilot72. and prove it can even be mastered. . here kid buu is shown to have been damaged by ssj3 goku, an impressive feat. the english dub is non canon so dont ever use it to prove anything. If Goku could handle him then why didn't he take it? So mystic Gohan accualy use his SSJ2 power so the energy of his can not be used to the spirit bomb because he is inpure. cell held back vs goku the whole time, and showed his real power only when gohan started dominating him. Pikkon got outsmarted, ... Goku was encouraging Gohan to unleash his full power against Cell to beat him. Others say SSJ 3 Gotenks is stronger. . So no matter what quotes you have or what the anime series says, Goku killed Buu and Gohan did nothing really but die along with Earth. This is clear evidence Gotenks already has much more fighting potential then Goku. To those saying Kid Buu is far weaker than Super Buu, didn't (at least in the anime) Gohan and the Z fighters back on earth donate some of their if not most of their energy to the spirit bomb then go around telling people to give up their energy. End of discussion.Gohan is Supreme, Supreme is Gohan. Even though he knows of them. This is also the case for Movie 12, as seen when SSJ3 Goku was beaten up by Super Janemba, who is put around having equal strength as Super Buu. When Mystic Gohan fought Super Buu, he easily crushed him, something that not even SSj3 Gotenks could do. SSJ3 Gotenks was a boy. . I'm pretty sure with 30+ years of rigorous training he would be well beyond SSJ3 On top of that AFTER he fought Kid Buu he said at full power he could beat him so obviously at full power he's stronger as he knew what Kid's strength was when he made that statement. Goku was sure Gotenks was going to be this awesome fighter, but he didn't think that all that power in the hands of someone who doesn't know what to do with it, is well useless. But still Ultimate Gohan is stronger than SSJ3 Goku.BardockGoku 08:19, October 22, 2011 (UTC). power levle is all that matters in z. you should have realised that by now. First off, I don't remember him saying that. Goku never fully mastered ssj3 so it might be stronger and if we're talikng about the energy drain ssj had a lot of side effects if you used it before mastering it. DrunkenPilot72 11 years ago #5. The question is asking if Ultimate Gohan is stronger than a SSJ3 not SSJ3 Gotenks or Goku. Goku held his fighting with kid buu whereas gohan was easily defeated by buu+piccolo+gotenks. and no goku wasnt able to fight buutenks at all. Little . kid buu is massively weaker than super buu, maybe hundreds of times weaker.". Ok SSJ3 Goku only got one hit in on Buutenks. gotenks never had a chance and i doubt gotenks had increased that much in a week. Now, in Wrath of the Dragon, when fighting against Hirudagarn, Ultimate Gohan gets pummeled. he had to in order to be ssj again despite being ultimate in z. its in the gt perfect files. gohan doesnt suck and he did train. SSJ2 Gohan DID use his full power against Cell. Just to make my opinion absolutely clear, Gohan is stronger then Goku at the end of the buu saga.Jpark0015 16:07, August 30, 2011 (UTC). . Following Goku's death, he was trained by Piccolo in anticipation of the upcoming Saiyan invasion, and grew much stronger and closer to his new mentor, ultimately redeeming him and setting him down the path of heroism due to their bond. It is entirely possible that Kid Buu is stronger, and more formidable in many ways. The form is known as Binary and during this state, her powers can be compared to that of Ultra Instinct Goku, thus making her way stronger than Ultimate Gohan. Though Goku said he and vegeta couldn't beat super buu note that it was super buu/gohan so it was a lot stronger than normal. The anime doesn't provide a clear answer to this question, but the manga reveals that Gohan has the edge over Android 17. So despite the fact that Goku and Kid Buu fought on equal level, you placed Kid Buu 3 places ahead of Goku? It's not that he was weaker it's because he can't just power up to full right away. Does not mean they surpass everything else and its all inaccurate. Now this is about Ultimate Gohan. Gohan >> SSj3 Gotenks > Super Buu >>>>> SSJ Gotenks <=> FPSSJ3 Goku. he was kicking ass. Yamcha626 21:22, December 28, 2011 (UTC). like gohan vs cell. When they ripped Fat Buu out he expected Buu to get weaker to where he didn't have to worry bout being full power but he didn't, it was the opposite, he got stronger cause the Fat Kai's influence was gone. Here's why: after fighting Majin Buu, Goku implied that an even stronger warrior than him was coming. Your an idiot, all u typed has opinion written all over it. so your "proof" is worthless since piccolo was comparing a holding-back goku to a full powered gohan. Nah Goku is far more superior in intelligence remember Berrus stated that Goku is a prodigy, in battle IQ, although they both lack common sense, Naruto doesn’t have that battle IQ, as for Goku he can learn any ability he wants just by looking at it and he can also adapt to his ability very fast. the manga doesnt really apply when talking about gt. Most likely Ultimate Gohan due to him being one of the strongest characters in the anime, it's said that sometimes Gohan has the potential to even be stronger than Goku at times.